I’ve been mulling around a few post ideas for several weeks. I know it’s been slow over here at notguilty, but I’m working on some stuff and things that are very client-centric right now – motions and discovery and general lawyer like business. I have been reading some blogs, but not with the frequency I used to, but today I took some time and perused the blawgosphere and came upon Scott Greenfield’s post on criminalizing bullying. As some of you know, I have three-year-old twin boys. They recently started full-time daycare and they really do like it, but little did I know that all of this craziness starts this young – the name calling, the creation of cliques and pecking orders – ‘mean girls’ and ‘cool kids’. I see it now in this little daycare in our little suburban town.
The other day Yonas got into the car and said to me “Poopy. Mommy poopy. You drive a poopy car.” Now, I cannot argue with the basic premise of his statement. My car is a piece of shit, of that there is no doubt, but before daycare and exposure to other kids, it was “our van” (yes, I drive a mini-van, get over it). Then last week Yacob had dirt thrown in his face by another kid. I know, I know, they are only three and this stuff will happen. But it’s not like it stops later on. There are forever kids who throw dirt in other kids’ faces. Eventually there are even meaner words and, eventually, fist fights. I know it’s coming. I know it is. And I want to protect my babies from the mean, callous, cruel world. I want them to know how wonderful they are and how much potential they have to do great things if they want to, if they try. I want to teach them to be kind, and strong, and unafraid. To know when to fight and when to turn the other cheek.
With that said, I don’t want bullying to be criminalized. It is a sign of weakness as a society, as adults and parents that we would abdicate this responsibility of teaching our children right from wrong to the schools. What wisdom is there left for us to impart onto our children when the schools get to decide it all? I no longer need to have a word with the parent, or call the school, I don’t have to tell my child that if someone pushes them, to push back harder because, well, the school’s taking care of all of that. I am decidedly against school turning my kids into giant weenies who won’t know how to stand up for themselves, or for others. How will my kids know right and wrong if they never see it, if they never hear it or have to fight against it? Are we just going to perpetuate this ridiculous idea that all of the world is friendly and nice forever? For how long can we keep this up and what happens when the fantasy breaks down? Who will take care of my kids when they face meanness as adults? What school will step up to make it all better then?
I was never bullied so I don’t know what it feels like. My parents always told me that if someone tried to do something to me, or said something to me, I should take matters into my own hands and they would have my back. They always made sure that I knew that it wasn’t okay for me to stand by while others were being picked on either. So, I stand up for those who can’t stand up for themselves. I’ve made it sort of a career, in fact. And I know that those who were bullied will probably be in favor of this law and tell me I have no idea what it feels like, and they are right. But that’s par for the course – people always want laws that they feel benefit their particular situation. The truth is that you can’t mandate that everyone be nice.
Or can you? Maybe it’s time to think about home-schooling.
My son was bullied last year in 1st grade. It broke my heart. But, he learned to outsmart those bullies and this year he is having an AMAZING year. It's so heart wrenching to imagine anyone being mean to your child when you're not there to protect them, but with a Mom like you I'm sure your boys will be able to handle anything that comes at them.
It's really such a hard thing to think about. I have nephews who are my whole world. One of them was in a position of having to step up to a kid who was bullying a child who has Down's Syndrome. Down's Syndrome. I couldn't believe that even a fourth grader could be so insensitive. My nephew is lucky in that he's one of the "cool" kids because he's smart and athletic. He put the bully right in his place. This year, the child who was the bully before is being bullied. My nephew doesn't know what to do because he feels like no one should be bullied and yet this child hurt a lot of people previously. I feel so lucky that he is smart enough to articulate this and that he thinks critically. But to the parents who raise a kid who made fun of a child with DS… well, I don't know if there's anything that law or society can do to fix that.
I was bullied fairly regularly when I was younger; sometimes, I ignored it and sometimes I fought back (though once when I kicked a boy who was taunting me, he threw a chair at me so at least in my case, the fight back approach did not always work).
But criminalizing bullying is ridiculous. First of all, bullying, especially "girl" bullying is not always the kid throwing the chair. It's kind of subtle stuff, like ganging up or making rude comments on Facebook or telling other kids to stay away from someone. The teachers do see this, but they don't know how or what to do, so they essentially punish the "victims" by trying to force them to conform. My older daughter has encountered this type of bullying – it rolls right off her – but camp counselors and teachers have suggested that we do more to get her to fit in rather than punishing people who make fun of her. I don't see this trend changing – and indeed, perhaps see it getting worse — if bullying is criminalized because that simply puts more pressure on the teachers who would rather not address it.
I was bullied constantly as a kid. No one at school cared, until the boy in 6th grade broke my arm. Then they cared whether my parents planned to sue. That was it. Junior high and high school were even worse. I can't remember anyone ever stepping in to do anything, ever. But I lived.
Do I like the idea of our kids going through that? No. But I don't think it's the school's job to raise kids. I think it's the parents' job to raise kids — to teach kids not be assholes to other kids and to teach them to have enough self-esteem to survive and "fight back" in an appropriate way.
I certainly don't see how criminalizing bullying would be the answer. I don't even understand how it's possible. Where would the line be drawn? What's the criminal definition of bullying going to be? Calling a kid a name on his facebook wall? What's the sentence for that?
"Where would the line be drawn? What's the criminal definition of bullying going to be? Calling a kid a name on his facebook wall? What's the sentence for that?"
Sad to say, but it is starting already… and yes, precisely on the FaceBook front…
From Norm Pattis:
http://www.pattisblog.com/index.php?article=Choate_s_Misplaced_Censorship_2691
HI
Its tempe criminal defense
tempe criminal defense
I agree with Carolyn.
I was one of the kids who was bullied. I wasn't picked on because I'm gay (even I didn't know it back then, and only my stepfather felt that was a constructive use of energy), but because I was the bookworm, the nerd in hand-me-down clothes. Lacking support at school, my response was largely to withdraw.
I survived, and I got stronger, because I at least had the generalized support and encouragement of my mother.
But what do we do when Mom's not there to support us, and the teacher doesn't know what to do, and the SCHOOL ADMINISTRATION SUPPORTS IT?
While we can't legislate everything, when parents DO abdicate parenting, and the school WON'T stand in loco parentis, I'm at a loss for alternatives. Kids shouldn't die for this, and the tools available to them now to be as cruel as kids have always been give them incredible power.
I'm of a number of minds on this. I am not altogether unsympathetic to your contention that this is really a parental responsibility, but it is often the case that schools and parents are either ill equipped or unwilling to provide safe environments in which kids can learn.
I came to this country when I was 2. When my mother arrived, she did not speak a word of English. My dad, an emotionally distant academic, wasn't terribly into the whole parenting thing. We moved a number of times during my early school years so making friends and keeping them was a little difficult, so bullying was a pretty constant companion in my schooling.
When I got to high school, however, it became clear to me that the bullying at Centennial High School was not just tolerated, but actually encouraged. Folks who stood up to douchebags on the wrestling team found themselves suspended or transferred. Parent/teacher conferences were farcical with students being admonished to "try to fit in". I never got to the Dylan Klebold state, but there are at least a couple folks to this day that I will not cross the street to piss on if they found themselves on fire.
What struck me most about this entire experience was how different it was from the "real world". Once you reach adulthood, you have real options and recourse. Someone threatens you with physical violence, you call the cops or beat his ass with a pipe. Someone harasses you in a way that threatens your livelihood (and that's what school is to a student) and you hire an attorney to put a restraining order on his ass. None of these are available to a student. To the bullied kid, school is a prison.
I suspect the comment about the "poopy car" may have been inspired by the recent television commercial series advertising the 2011 Toyota Highlander. In it, an 8 year old rips on his classmates for having poor parents with crappy cars.
Great message, America.
Thanks for this post.
Legislation here doesn't fix that much. Tougher kids and parents do. In the UK, people have gone a bit insane over this topic. It's disappointing. Hope that does not happen here in U.S.
If someone bullies a kid with Downs or autism, it's okay to yell at him–and even kick his ass. Humiliate, shame and verbally abuse his parents, teachers or keepers. Forget about "grace" there. Forget about the rules. Heroics and a little righteous indignation are OK. Ask others to step in and help. And yes, you can get the school, owner, household store or whatever local turf or host it's happening on involved.
But step up and do it yourself.
Don't pass a law. And don't pretend we must all be more evolved than we can be or really are.
What struck me most about this entire experience was how different it was from the "real world". Once you reach adulthood, you have real options and recourse. Someone threatens you with physical violence, you call the cops or beat his ass with a pipe. Someone harasses you in a way that threatens your livelihood (and that's what school is to a student) and you hire an attorney to put a restraining order on his ass. None of these are available to a student. To the bullied kid, school is a prison.
I don't see how it makes sense to tell kids to "stand up for themselves" and then force them to go to school unarmed.