I use the term litmus test with only a vague understanding of it’s meaning. I am, unfortunately, a science moron, and only remember something about paper turning purple if it’s basic? Or is it acidic? Regardless, I understand it means “a test in which a single factor(as an attitude, event, or fact) is decisive.” At least, that’s what Merriam-Webster says and they are pretty popular so I will go with that. Most of the time we don’t have a litmus test for our friends, we are willing to accept that people have different attitudes about things and if we share a number of similarities, we can agree to disagree about a few things without jeopardizing our entire relationship. For example, I can accept that people need religion. I don’t get it (anymore) and I make judgements about people who say “because the Bible/Koran/Torah tells me so” in response to things. I once talked to a nice young fellow who believed the Bible invented marriage. It was a curious moment since I thought otherwise he was fairly smart, but he didn’t understand the how or why of marriage and that it wasn’t because God thought it was morally right and told Jesus who then told us (well, them, not me), and that made me a little sad. But while the reasoning was way off, if it helped him get to where he needed to be, that’s ok, right?
I hear there are people who don’t like Kimchi, there are people I am friendly with who are anti-choice or who think Sarah Palin isn’t the dumbest person to ever walk the earth. They vote Republican and think I am a crazed liberal. There are people I like who choose to stay home and raise their kids and I think that is not the best thing in the world, and there are people who choose not to have children because they admit to being too selfish. I’m not sure I’m on board with that either. But see – all this proves I am just a terribly tolerant individual. Mostly. Except for this one thing.
If you are against gay marriage I probably don’t really like you. If you are a person who clings to religion as the reason then you’ve clearly got two strikes against you. I cannot explain to you why I feel so strongly about this, but I do. Is it, maybe, because some of the people I know and respect most are gay? I don’t know if that’s it. Is it because the people who are opposed are such morons? That could be it, maybe. But there is just something about the desire to deny people who love each other the chance to have what the rest of us have that just makes me think you are just very, very wrong. If your reason is because God says it’s wrong, I probably just feel terribly sorry for you and your inability to use the brain power that God gave you to think it through for yourself. How does God create someone and something he hates? Why?
If someone could give me a legal, logical, well thought out reason why same sex couples should not get married that doesn’t involve getting married to a duck,I’d love to hear it. But, I doubt you can.
I totally, inexplicably feel this way too. I don't know why, but I do. Maybe it's because marriage means a lot to me. I don't know.
I would very much like to be your friend, so much that I would certainly drop my (formerly) strongly-held religious beliefs! After all, personal convictions shouldn't count when weighed against the good opinion of other people.
Although it is awful nice that you allow us to have our opinions based upon religion except when you REALLY disagree with them. Why, that is right tolerant.
Seriously, I don't mind reconsidering my views – I have changed them greatly over the years – but people are going to have to come up with something better than a) yer a biggit and b) love conquers all, as neither of these are sufficient for me to meekly accept any sort of novel social engineering.
Do you really want answers, or is this just a rant?
If there is no God, if right and wrong are just human constructs, then we are free to declare homosexuality wrong if we want. We don't have to give reasons, any more than we would have to give a reason for why we prefer mustard over mayonnaise.
If there is, he has a right to tell his creations how he wants them to act.
"How does God create someone and something he hates?" This is no more remarkable a question about homosexuality than about any other sin. Everybody God created is a sinner, we all do what God tells us not to. God doesn't hate us, he loves us enough to die for us, and save us.
Your question seems to suggest that if God really disliked sin, he ought to simply destroy it, and in fact he promises that he someday will, but is tolerating it for a while to give us the opportunity to be saved from it.
Old questions, old answers. You're as entitled to your peeves as much as anyone else on the internet. You're free to exclude the mass of humanity from your approval and your friendship.
But don't think that because someone has a different opinion than yours, they are irrational. They are not "otherwise smart," they start from certain premises and reach a logical conclusion. You may disagree with the premise, and thus the conclusion, but this isn't the same as finding a flaw in the logic.
I have sound, non-religious reasons to oppose gay marriage. As it happens, I am strongly in favor of gay marriage, so I see little reason to air them out.
Even though there are rational reasons to oppose gay marriage, that doesn't mean, at the end of the day, the opposition wins. It doesn't and it shouldn't. However,I do not care for chocolate, which precludes me from man religious experiences.
Please don't hate me for my feelings about chocolate (especially when there are so many better reasons).
The issue, I think, is not whether or not religious justifications for opposing same-gender marriage are sound. Questions of dogma are rarely if ever resolved by reasoned debate.
The question, for me, is why a particular religious viewpoint – be it Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc. – should be given the force of law. If a particular religious group is opposed to same-sex marriage, fine. Members of that group don’t have to marry people of the same sex. (Likewise for opposition to abortion, or any number of other social issues.) People are absolutely free to decline to have abortions, to decline to allow their churches to endorse same-sex marriage, or whatever.
But what gives one particular religious group the right to legislate its view of morality? “The bible tells us so” is a poor answer, not because it’s illogical, but because some Christian and Jewish groups have looked at the same bible and reached the conclusion that gay marriages SHOULD be recognized.
“I now pronounce you man and horse” [Captain Horatio McCallister, ‘The Mansion Family’, The Simpson’s, Season 11.
^^^ haha yes Floyd, precisely.
What is marriage? Is it a certificate issued by the state, or is it the insoluble bond between a man and a woman? The former is nothing more than an unenforceable contract.
Again I ask: what is marriage?
Sometimes people need validation from a source other than themselves. It is one thing to pat yourself on the back for a job well done. It is quite a different thing for another person to pat you on the back for a job well done. Its just better. In some respects the gay marriage crowd is just looking for validation other than self-validation. I understand that. Everyone is wants to hear that they are good. That they have done a good job. That we support you. But what if that validation isn’t voluntary? What if your participation is forced? By violence? By libel? Don’t get me started on a “Tyranny of the majority” argument, but is the support really there? Do you really need me to pat you on the back? Do you need my nod so much so that you are willing to squeeze it out of me? Libel me? Label me? Do you really care what I think? Is it really validation if I’m forced to go along to get along? Who would have thought in the 1970’s that in 2011 that gay marriage would be legal in, what, Vermont, Massachusetts, Iowa (?). And that it is even debatable in other states? And that there is a Constitutional right to gay marriage? Are you ef-ing kidding me? (If you ever took Con-law, they just make s–t up as they go along) But they wear you down. They make you feel that there is something wrong with you. But you know its them. You know that they are wrong. But you live in Los Angeles, or Seattle or New York, where all these people congregate. And you watch TV and these people are on every channel, except Fox News. So finally, finally, you just gotta stop talking about it. You have to stop outing yourself, to use a gay term, so that you will understand what I’m talking about. You have already been alienated by all your colleagues and friends. They laugh at you behind your back cause you’re not in the know. There will be no pat on the back that you were so longing for. Not until you come to your senses. So for 2012, on this last day of 2011: Gay marriage for all! In fact, marriage is pretty gay when you think about it. Happy New Year.